Optimism is a Choice: Nanfu Wang on "Night is Not Eternal"
We discuss the timing of her new film, Rosia María Payá, and how to keep optimistic
Nanfu Wang is a Chinese-born American documentary filmmaker. Her earliest film, Hooligan Sparrow, premiered at Sundance in 2016 and would later be shortlisted for Best Documentary Feature at the Academy Awards. Since then she’s directed many features including the acclaimed One Child Nation, and In the Same Breathe which looked at how the Chinese and American governments reacted to the COVID-19 pandemic. She’s mainly focused on her homeland of China and shining a light on how the government controls its people.
Her latest feature, Night is Not Eternal, started as a biography of Cuban activist Oswaldo Paya who dreamed of a democratic Cuba. Through a series of interviews with his daughter, Rosia María Payá, Wang details the goals of the Paya family and how the strife in Cuba very much mirrors that in China. There’s a desire to give people agency over how they are governed instead of facing harsh authoritarian regimes.
Scheduled for release on HBO not even two weeks removed from the election and confirmation of Donald Trump’s second Presidential term in office, Night is Not Eternal pivots during its runtime to explore what democracy means for everyone. It’s not as straightforward as we’d like to imagine it is. And given Wang’s history of covering her homeland of China does she have any words of guidance in facing authoritarian leaders.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Max Covill: I understand you’ve been working on this project for seven years. Why do you think now is the right time to release it?
Nanfu Wang: I wish I could say I’m a prophet and I knew what was going to happen, but I’m not. It’s honestly a coincidence that the film’s release aligns with the election season. It feels surreal—I started this project in 2016 when Trump was elected. Now, eight years later, it’s coming out. The truth is, it simply took this long for the film to work.
In 2016, I began the film, but by 2017, I was pregnant. My doctor advised against traveling to Cuba because of the Zika virus risk. So, I couldn’t physically go to Cuba and instead filmed in Miami occasionally. Later that year, I saw Rosa María Payá on TV at a Trump rally, which completely shook me. I had always felt a strong connection to Rosa—our values and upbringing seemed so aligned. At that moment, I knew that there was something different between us.
MC: How did that affect the direction of the film?
NW: The movie changed from a portrait of her father, Oswaldo Paya, and activism in Cuba, to instead examining democracy and freedom. I think my life, giving birth to a child and then the pandemic, compelled me to make other films because they were immediate. In the background, I was trying to make sense of Rosa, America, and the world. Do our ideas of democracy, freedom, and equality mean the same thing? Or do the same words mean different things? Those questions were so deeply rooted in the making of this film. And I think it took many years to get there.
MC: Do you feel Rosa still adheres to her father’s principles or has her political stance evolved?
NW: Rosa is very much her father’s daughter. If you ask her, she’d say everything she’s doing everything as a continuation of his work. We speculated about what her father might think of Trump, but those are hypothetical questions. She didn’t have answers for everything and I’m still feeling a little confused today. I have many friends who are Chinese and who could dedicate their entire lives to fighting for democracy in China, and they would vote for Trump. They did vote for Trump. Rosa herself focuses on Cuba above all else, navigating the American political landscape pragmatically to garner support for her cause. Whether it’s a Republican or Democrat in office, her ultimate goal remains the same: Cuba.
MC: Do you share Rosa’s convictions for Cuba in your activism for China?
NW: I think so. Both of us dream of a freer homeland. I consider myself more of a filmmaker than an activist. My films are my way of contributing, though I’m more pessimistic than Rosa. Filmmaking is the best I know how to do, and while I don’t know how much impact it will have, whether it’s simply serving as a form of documentation or it will have some small chance of impact.
MC: Rolling Stone writer Tim Dickinson recently wrote about the 2024 election results and resisting authoritarianism in Donald Trump’s second term. As someone who has lived under and resisted authoritarian regimes, how do you approach this challenge?
NW: How are we going to resist? I’m still figuring out how to hold power accountable. At the end of the film, Oswaldo says, “With all our flaws and all our hearts, this is what we know how to do.” That resonates with me. My way of resisting is through filmmaking—exposing truths and shedding light on issues. On the other hand, Rosa protests, organizes movements and activates citizens. Both approaches matter, as does battling disinformation and raising awareness.
The least effective way is to get into arguments, like personal attacks on people who don’t share your political views. I believe that’s the opposite of effective change because it’s alienating. Until we can see that there is no “we and the other,” most people are kind and compassionate. They would all say that we care about democracy, freedom, and a desire for our family to be better.
MC: Your closing line in the film suggests optimism is a choice. Do recent protests in Cuba and China offer hope?
NW: Absolutely. I think the nationwide demonstrations in China came as a surprise and the same as in Cuba. Both were unprecedented in terms of scale and the boldness of some of the things the protesters would shout about. Very few saw it coming and even fewer could pinpoint what sparked this. One day when there is a trigger, there will be a time when people are suddenly brave enough. All of these are seeds. Eventually, it will happen.
Night is Not Eternal premiers on HBO on November 19th.